View topic - 58 firersweep - took motor out,rebuilt it, cannot put it bak

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Hi All,

I pulled the motor from the car and rebuilt it.
I was reinstalling it and I cannot seem to get it completely mated to the transmission (automatic). The tranny is still in the car.

There is still about 3/4 inch gap between the engine and transmission. I know the spline is mated.

Tried 3 times.

Is there a trick? Am i doing something wrong? Do I need to pull the transmission and mate it first?

Thanks
Conrad


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:39 pm 
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The amount of space you're talking about sounds like the torque converter isn't fully seated in the front pump drive.

That's also about the same as the thickness of the adapter plate that at least goes in the earlier Hemi. Do the later blocks take that plate?

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Last edited by TimBowers on Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Thanks for the reply. Looking at the transmission there is this black key i.e notched cylinder around the spline. the torque converter when mounted to the engine has the opposite feature. This could be it but not sure.

Can you typically reinstall the engine with the transmission in the car? Its not like a chevy.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:20 pm 
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I like mating the trans and engine first and then installing the assembly into the car, but that doesn't mean it has to be done that way. I don't like struggling with the alignment of the engine/trans under the car.

Did you have the torque converter on the engine, or in the bell housing? I'd double/triple check that the torque converter is properly installed on the trans input shaft and pump drive.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:18 pm 
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I bolted the torque converter to the motor. It looked impossible to put the torque convert in transmission housing and then try to mate the engine to that with its 10bolts and nuts which can only get tightened with a straight wrench on them (cannot be accessed when torque converter is in engine).

I could remove the transmission and mount it to the engine and then install it. I did not know if the combo could be inserted when together. Removing the transmission seems like another headache though as the linkage and the bracket and the drive shaft have to be removed and reinstalled. Every time I do one think I end of disassembling several other things. In the end I will likely end up with a bunch of parts.

It sounds like there is no real trick or special procedure. I am just doing something wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:12 am 
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I still think you don't have the torque converter properly installed on the transmission's input shaft.

We put the torque converter on the transmission, making sure that it's properly installed on the pump drive and then mate the trans to the engine. Then we bring the torque converter foward and bolt it to the crankshaft flange. It IS a major hassle to get our fingers up between the converter and the flange to start the nuts.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:56 pm 
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I hope it is not too late! Yes, the TC should be bolted to the engine and the TC cover/bell-housing should also be secured to the engine. Now you can check and verify if the TC is true with a dial indicator. If it is, then you can proceed to either a:attach transmission to engine and install as a unit, or b: install engine in car then install transmission.

If you have more questions ask. I have done this a few times.

Good Luck
Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:13 pm 
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Hi Tim, Steve,

Well I had a mechanic look at it and first thing he said was it is weird ass design no wonder Desoto went out of business. I said that is my car you are talking about. He went on to basically say what Tim said above. you install the torque converter in bell housing and then you try to reach in and put the nuts on after kind of mating the engine to it. That sounds crazy as I had a tough time just mounting the torque converter to the engine let alone when the torque converter is inserted into a bell housing.

steve, I did not really follow what you are suggesting but if you have an easer way I would be very relieved to understand it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:21 pm 
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Don't know if I had already mentioned it, but I've seen vintage video that clearly shows that the torque converter was installed on the crank prior to the crank assembly being dropped into the block.

How they insured at the factory that the front pump input was correctly aligned I'm not sure about, though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Tim: You are correct. The TC was mated to the crank and balanced before being installed int the block.

Conrad:
1) If the adapter plate is not attached to the engine, install it now.
1) Remove the transmission from the car.
2) Bolt Torque Converter (TC) to crankshaft.
3) Secure the TC housing (bell housing) to engine.

Now you can either install engine and then install the transmission, or connect the engine and transmission and install as a unit.

Check the size of the transmission mounting bolts in the TC cover. I think they are 7/16 X 20. Get a couple long bolts to act as guide pins when you slide the transmission into the TC. Look into the TC and try to align the transmission input shaft with the TC.

Good Luck and ask questions.
Steve

PS: It is a great design if you know what you're doing!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Hi Guys, It is a good design if you know what you are doing but I am afraid I do not.

When you guys talk about the torque converter being attached to the crank before being put into the block I start loosing hair.

I removed the engine from the car. The torque converter was attached to the back of the engine with 5 or six nuts to the crank flange. I took the engine to the rebuilder and he returned it fully rebuilt plus the Torque converter unattached. I reattached the torque converter to the flange on the crank coming out the back of the engine but could not get the engine with torque converter to fully mate to the transmission which was still in the car. It would line up but be about 1/2 gap from fully seating.

Are you saying that the engine build should have installed the torque converter onto the crank shaft when he built the engine? Oh my god.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:48 pm 
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My comment about the torque converter being installed onto the crank only has to do with how much easier it is to first rather than how I reassemble the transmission to the engine. I don't think you need to lose hair!

The way I do it, you need to daintily slide your fingers up between the crank flange and the back of the block while holding the nut and manipulate the nut into the threads of the stud. It takes a long time and evokes swear words.

My preference is to mate the engine and trans outside of the car and install them into the car together. I find it easier to wrestle the two together out in the garage floor. I can manipulate the height and angle of the engine while it's hanging on the cherry picker with my engine leveler and use a floor jack to bring the trans up to the engine.

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