View topic - Fluid drive won't up-shift

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:49 pm 
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I recently rebuilt my entire fuel system on my 49 DeSoto first series due to ethanol causing it to hesitate badly. New gas tank w gas gauge sensor, rebuilt carb and when I removed the rubber fuel line I found the issue as there wasn’t much left of the line and was sure sucking air. Replaced the line and the sucker fired right up! Little did I know that the fuel pump was leaking like a sieve. Ethanol apparently destroyed the seals. Bought a 6 Volt electric fuel pump with an attached fuel filter and problem solved. She now starts and runs as good as ever but now a new problem and that is Fluid Drive. When I took the car out for a test drive, she backed out of the garage in reverse no problem. I then put her in high gear (shifter down) and she took off but will not shift into the second gear. I have been taking her in the neighborhood for the past couple of weeks trying to loosen it up but no luck. I have never done anything to this tranny. When I spoke with some of the older mechanics about fluid drive, their response was “if it isn't broke don’t fix it”. It was recommended that I start with changing the fluids on both the tranny so I recently drained the tranny and added fresh 10w oil and cleaned the screen. Issue still exists. Lowering idle speed was recommended but it already very low. It was also recommended that I disconnect the the fuse on the fender for the solenoid so I did and took her for a ride. She shifted into the higher gear perfectly so my issue is looking like electrical. It is possible that I have the connections wrong of the carb. I should have taken a pic before I removed the carb to have it rebuilt. As you can see the connectors are a difference type so they cannot be reversed. The connection that I labelled #1 is pretty obvious as it can only go one place. I think that the connection labeled #2 may be the issue. However, there is not much slack on the harness to go anywhere else. Does anyone have a pic of the same setup so I can eliminate this as being the issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:51 am 
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Jack, on all three of my Desoto's, '52, '51 and early 49 both wires go into the two terminals on the anti-stall. I don't remember seeing one with two different connectors. It looks like someone "re engineered" yours maybe because the one connector broke off. I am almost certain the two wires have to go on the two terminals because that is a coil in there. I would try to find another anti-stall with both terminals and the correct end for the wire.

Did you try shifting it by pushing in the clutch pedal? Most people don't know you can do that (it took me 15 years to learn this) but rather than "wait for the clunk" if you push in the clutch it will shift right away. I do it quite often. Doing that by-passes some of the electrical components that shift it but I don't know which ones. Just get it up to about 25 mph push the clutch in and see if it upshifts.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:56 pm 
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Les, I will try your recommendation. Meanwhile, is it possible to get a pic as to how your 49 is connected? I have owned my car for 43 years and never had any issues until she sat while I rebuilt the fuel system which included pulling the carb for a rebuild. I can make the necessary adjustments if I have a pic to cross reference.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Les, I just checked the car and I see exactly what you mean. Someone has made some modifications as the connector probably broke at one time. I wish I had a pic of how it was connected before I removed the carb to be rebuilt as there is no easy way to make a good connection as it stands today. Now I know why other blogs suggested that I reversed these connection and I was saying that it is not possible. I was able to jury rig this connection and I will take her for a ride tonight and let you know how it goes. I agree that I should try to find another anti-stall with both terminals and the correct end for the wire. Hopefully this works for now.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Unfortunately it did not work. The only thing that actually got her to up-shift was removing the fuse on the fender. She up-shifted perfectly but was a little slow to down-shift.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:21 pm 
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Les, I have been told that the 1949 and later transmissions have a different wiring setup, which has two wires connected to the anti-stall. Owners earlier models are telling that they have two terminals at the anti-stall, but only one is used.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:58 am 
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JackHarrington wrote:
Les, I have been told that the 1949 and later transmissions have a different wiring setup, which has two wires connected to the anti-stall. Owners earlier models are telling that they have two terminals at the anti-stall, but only one is used.


I didn't know that. The '49 I have is a parts car that I saved from the crusher and haven't done much with it. I do have the carb off though and apart. I took it off a few years ago and don't remember how the anti-stall was wired. It does have two terminals and I can look at the car to see what the connectors look like. The car isn't here at the house though so it might be a couple days before I can check it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:07 pm 
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I would appreciate it Les. She has not run right for a few year now (started with fuel system issue) so a few days won't make a difference. However, I did take her for a blast yesterday as she is drivable with the fuse removed on the fender. I am going to do this on occasion to keep her mobile as I don't want to created a new issue having her sit in the garage. Boy does it feel good to drive her again.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Les, Mystery solved by another blog on p15-d24.com. See the attached pic where kickdown is circled (lower right) and anti-stall is circled upper left. Unfortunately, still will not up-shift.


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:23 pm 
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Location: San Diego
While trying to get a Pertronix ignition kit wired up on my 53 Firedome, I inadvertently hooked up the ignition interrupter switch incorrectly. This is a switch inside the transmission that momentarily grounds the ignition during a shift. I thought it was probably just a nicety, so I was surprised to find my transmission will NOT upshift without that ignition interrupter. The S16,27,18 shop manual shows diagrams and a full fault isolation procedure. I can't swear that your car is the same, but it might be worth checking out.

_________________
John Boyd
San Diego, California
Member National Desoto Club and Airflow Club of America
drjohn96@me.com
1953 S16 Firedome Estate Wagon (2)
1936 S2 Airflow sedan (4)


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Location: San Diego
Here are a couple of snips from the Tip-Toe Shift transmission section of my manual. Again -- this is a 1953 car.

John Boyd


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_________________
John Boyd
San Diego, California
Member National Desoto Club and Airflow Club of America
drjohn96@me.com
1953 S16 Firedome Estate Wagon (2)
1936 S2 Airflow sedan (4)
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Thanks John! I will take a look at this and run some tests.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:05 pm 
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I actually purchased the 1940-1948 DeSoto Factory Repair Shop Manual. They refer to a piston type and a diaphragm control system in their test procedure. Not sure which one a have.


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