View topic - Oil Filters (Issues) What Brand do you like?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:35 pm 
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This past weekend I changed the oil in my 1956 DeSoto Adventurer 341 HEMI. This uses the same oil filter as most other "Canister" types used on DeSotos if I'm not mistaken. So I have a complaint or question about them. I bought a FRAM C134PL and it comes with a metal "CUP" tack welded on one end with a rubber gasket in the hole and has the same rubber gasket on the other end. I removed a NAPA 1071 filter with a big flat rubber gasket that is FIXED (non removable) on both ends. So, my "Complaint" with the FRAM filter is the hole in the metal is 1/32" too small to fit over the pipe on the engine. I had to use a stone to remove enough material to get it onto the pipe. Don't worry... there was only a 'dust' on the metal (easily wiped off), no filings. That is why I didn't use a rat tail file. Anyway I removed the rubber gasket that was pushed into the FRAM filter and used the thick FLAT rubber washer that comes with the filter for the ENGINE side. I know there are OTHER applications that this filter is used for and I am assuming that is what that "CUP" is for on the one end. I put the CUP end on the TOP near the bolt head for my DeSoto. Once I got the filter opened out enough (just a smidge I tell ya) to push on OK, I then pushed it ON, and then I pulled it off and checked that the flat rubber gasket DOES mate with the metal on the filter. I then put the filter and canister back on and tightened it down. Started it up with no leaks and am satisfied it's all good.

OK, all that being said, I have a couple questions....
Has ANYONE had this same issue with the FRAM C134PL filter? I did NOT have this issue with the NAPA 1071 filter, although that one I remember kept falling over and I had a heck of a time getting it all "inline" with the canister/etc. and to keep it from leaking oil. I didn't care for the hard time I had getting the NAPA one installed.

I will NOT use the FRAM C134PL again!

Are there "better/easier" brands to use??

The Specs say, When changing the oil, use 4 quarts PLUS 1 quart when changing the filter for a total of 5 quarts, however, when I drained the canister, only about 4 oz. came out. That seems a bit ODD to say ADD 1 quart for the filter when 90% of the oil drains back into the pan anyway... don't ya think?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:40 am 
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Hey Jim,

Seems like the old AC filters I would find at flea markets years ago had that "cup" fixture on one end. I never had issues with them fitting the canister on my '55. I've switched to the NAPA 1071 filters and have the same challenge getting them to stay in the canister while I secure the canister to the base. Otherwise, I'm happy with the NAPA filter.

Are you sure about the refill capacity? My '55 291 Hemi calls for 5 quarts without filter and six quarts with filter. Six quarts with the filter brings the oil level to full.

Mark


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:56 am 
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MarkKubancik wrote:
Hey Jim,

Seems like the old AC filters I would find at flea markets years ago had that "cup" fixture on one end. I never had issues with them fitting the canister on my '55. I've switched to the NAPA 1071 filters and have the same challenge getting them to stay in the canister while I secure the canister to the base. Otherwise, I'm happy with the NAPA filter.

Are you sure about the refill capacity? My '55 291 Hemi calls for 5 quarts without filter and six quarts with filter. Six quarts with the filter brings the oil level to full.

Mark


Hi Mark, I have now decided to go with the NAPA filter "Next Time". :lol: I read "somewhere" on the internet that the WIX filters are the same ones as NAPA.

That is strange that your 55 has 6 qts! As for the amount of oil for my 56, well... the 1956 service manual said 4+1 and the owners manual says 4+1 and to "Fill to Full line" on the dipstick. Also, on the OIL Breather cap has a Yellow sticker that says "Crankcase Capacity 4 qts" See the copy of the decal that was original to my breather cap (now replaced with a new one). Lastly, the "Adventurer" card that came with my car when new also says the Oil Capacity was 4+1. So, I guess that is correct. My dipstick was rusted at the oil level line and it needed a weld job right at that point. I can't really get a "good" reading on it, but I know the 5 qts brings it to the repair area. :roll: I'll have to get a picture of the dipstick and post it.


Attachments:
4 quarts.jpg
4 quarts.jpg [ 67.94 KiB | Viewed 442 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:01 am 
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Jim,

I checked the '55 owners manual and it lists the crankcase capacity as 5 quarts with a note in parentheses to add one quart when replacing the filter element. I guess that's why on the '56 they placed that yellow decal so prominently; it was a big change for the shop guys.

Mark


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:54 pm 
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MarkKubancik wrote:
Jim,

I checked the '55 owners manual and it lists the crankcase capacity as 5 quarts with a note in parentheses to add one quart when replacing the filter element. I guess that's why on the '56 they placed that yellow decal so prominently; it was a big change for the shop guys.

Mark


Mark, Yes, that is a good point! My original 4qt oil sticker was put on really crooked. When I restored the car, I thought about putting the new sticker on crooked, just like it was when new... but I didn't, and it is straight now. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:25 pm 
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WIX 51O8O, just changed the oil in my '55; '56 is same.

There are several other filters that will work, but I can't look them up right now.

Use what you've got!

Have a nice day
Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Gents,

As a retired car engineer who spent his career working on engines, I can't resist adding my 2-cents worth to this discussion. Among car people, this is probably common knowledge, but maybe not, so it might be helpful.

DeSotos used three different types of oil filtration systems on cars during production. The DeSoto six used from 1928 through 1936, as well as the long-block six used from 1937 through 1954 all used a bypass filter system. in that system, a portion of the output of the oil pump goes through the filter and is returned to the crankcase. All oil sent to the bearings is unfiltered. With the exception of the first 5,000 engines in 1952, all DeSoto Hemi V-8's used a shunt type oil filtration system. In that system, a portion of the oil sent to the bearings is filtered, and the remaining portion is shunted past the filter and goes to the bearings unfiltered. The first 5,000 DeSoto Hemi V-8's built in 1952, and all B-Block engines used from 1958 to 1961 used full-flow oil filters. In that system, all oil sent to the bearings is filtered.


In all cases, it is good to start with the original Chrysler service part number and use on-line cross references to find the correct service part. The reason for this is that most of the cannister-type filter elements came in common dimension sizes, but were used in a variety of industrial applications. These might involve filtration media set up for opposite direction flow, and might involve different micron filtration media. There could be as many as four different filters that fit your engine, but only one that is correct. In the case of the spin-on filter elements, some do not include an anti-drain-back check valve, and so could result in dry restarts.


One more thing before I stop boring people. Almost all motor oils made after the late 1950's include detergent-dispersant additives. Unlike earlier oils with allowed particles to distill out to the bottom of the oil pan, these oils hold particles in suspension in the oil. For this reason, if you drive your car much and use these oils (they are much better lubricants), you need to use a full-flow filter. This filters the suspended particles out of the oil before it goes to the engine. If you don't, you risk accelerated engine wear from the larger suspended particles.


Whew! I know that was boring. I'm sorry.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Sorry... I made a double post. READ my post below.

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Last edited by JimMegee on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Brent, that was interesting and I didn't find it boring. 8)

The original Part number for the oil filter for my 1956 DeSoto is: 1821 552.

Steve, I just went to WIX website and for the 1955 - 1956 had referenced to the 51071. I used The MOPAR number on their site and it cross referenced to the 51071.

The 51071 is a FULL FLOW filter

The 51080 is a BY-PASS filter


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WIX Filters.jpg
WIX Filters.jpg [ 150.2 KiB | Viewed 368 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:35 am 
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Jim,

I found the same thing when I went to the filter sites. Two filters of seemingly identical dimensions but with different micron filtering for different applications. I don't think the full-flow filter was for use on a Chrysler car.


My 1952 V-8 originally came with the same shunt type filter that the 1955 and 1956 used. Here is a photo of the underside of the base, where you can clearly see the shunt slot.


Attachments:
Shunt Type Filter Base.JPG
Shunt Type Filter Base.JPG [ 2.36 MiB | Viewed 352 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 am 
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But from 1952 through 1954 DeSoto offered a full-flow cannister assembly as a dealer installed option, which had an integral pressure relief valve and used a different element. When I rebuilt my engine in 2015, I found one of those and installed it in place of the shunt type assembly. Here is a photo of the two cannisters side-by-side.


Attachments:
Full Flow and Shunt Type Side by Side.JPG
Full Flow and Shunt Type Side by Side.JPG [ 2.45 MiB | Viewed 351 times ]

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Last edited by BrentJacobsen on Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:45 am 
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It seems that the Chrysler parts books do not show that cannister as being used on 1955-1957 engines. I guess I haven't spent enough garage time with a disassembled 55-57 DeSoto V-8 to know if the earlier full-flow cannister will work on the later engines. There are O-ring grooves machined on the block for this cannister on my engine. I don't know if the DeSoto engine plant deleted those on later engines. Here is a photo of the block pad where the filter base mounts on my engine. You can see the O-ring grooves.


In addition to providing better filtration, the filter element is significantly easier to change on the full-flow cannister!


Attachments:
52 DeSoto 276 CID Oil Filter Mounting Boss on Engine.JPG
52 DeSoto 276 CID Oil Filter Mounting Boss on Engine.JPG [ 2.43 MiB | Viewed 346 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Great information Brent! However, you mention the word SHUNT, so I looked in my 1956 FSM to see if it said anything about the type of "FILTER". It said to use the Shunt type. I'm not familiar with what "SHUNT" means?? I went to the Hastings website and got this info. You can see that there are TWO filters that cross reference to the original MOPAR part number 1821552.

Does SHUNT FILTER mean FULL FLOW FILTER?

Part Number Manufacturer Hastings Qualifiers
1821552 CHRYSLER LF316 Shunt
1821552 CHRYSLER LF128 By-Pass

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Hi Jim,

The term "shunt" literally means to take a shortcut. In your car, the filter housing is designed to force some oil through the filter and allow some to take a shortcut (or "shunt") through the slot in the base around the filter and go to the engine unfiltered. You cannot change that by changing the filter element.


One of the things that irritates me about the filter cross-references online (and I think was Mark's original complaint) is they tend to show all the filters of a given size, not just the ones that directly replace the part number you put in. The parts folks at stores will always choose the one they have, not necessarily the one that you want. And sometimes the filters are "multi-use" and have extra gaskets and grommets that aren't required for our applications. Worse, the parts folks aren't always conscientious, and will sometimes put filters back into the wrong package.


There have been many applications for oil filters designed that use the same dimension filter element as the Chrysler shunt filter element, but are different in the design of the housing and the oil flow path. Lift trucks and tractors are the two most common alternative applications. Many of those have housings that are designed for bypass flow, and some have pressure relief systems for full flow. Some of them move the oil in the opposite direction.


In general, bypass filters have the most restrictive media and catch the smallest particles. Shunt filters are next, and full-flow filters have the largest media size. With paper element filters the paper is directional- it is designed to work only in one direction. Flowing oil backwards through it can result in the filter media shedding particles into your oil.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:20 pm 
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It seems that it would be wise to start printing Brent's comments and compiling a resource/information manual......

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